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Tommi_J
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 Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: Jihad TV |
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Anyone catch it on C4 last night?
An interesting documentary about the pro-Muslim TV channels that broadcast across the Middle East, glorifying the death of US and Western soldiers. Some TV channels even produce their own violent video games to help the younger generation to grow up and learn to hate any that oppose Islam.
Also an interesting point made by some of them, that they truly beleive that 9/11 was all a fake done my American Intelligence, just so that the US and the West had a motive to invade the Muslim countries.
Even worse for me, is the fatc that some Muslims in this country are watching the extreme videos, and supporting them. If that's the case, and they hate the West so much, why stay here? Wasn't Abu Hamza deported for that kind of thing?
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Andy Mac's Fake Tan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Jihad TV |
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| Tommi_J wrote: |
Anyone catch it on C4 last night?
An interesting documentary about the pro-Muslim TV channels that broadcast across the Middle East, glorifying the death of US and Western soldiers. Some TV channels even produce their own violent video games to help the younger generation to grow up and learn to hate any that oppose Islam.
Also an interesting point made by some of them, that they truly beleive that 9/11 was all a fake done my American Intelligence, just so that the US and the West had a motive to invade the Muslim countries.
Even worse for me, is the fatc that some Muslims in this country are watching the extreme videos, and supporting them. If that's the case, and they hate the West so much, why stay here? Wasn't Abu Hamza deported for that kind of thing? |
Surely that can't have come as too much of a shock to you?
If they don't stay here, how can they blow it up?
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Tommi_J
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Jihad TV |
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| Andy Mac's Fake Tan wrote: |
| Tommi_J wrote: |
Anyone catch it on C4 last night?
An interesting documentary about the pro-Muslim TV channels that broadcast across the Middle East, glorifying the death of US and Western soldiers. Some TV channels even produce their own violent video games to help the younger generation to grow up and learn to hate any that oppose Islam.
Also an interesting point made by some of them, that they truly beleive that 9/11 was all a fake done my American Intelligence, just so that the US and the West had a motive to invade the Muslim countries.
Even worse for me, is the fatc that some Muslims in this country are watching the extreme videos, and supporting them. If that's the case, and they hate the West so much, why stay here? Wasn't Abu Hamza deported for that kind of thing? |
Surely that can't have come as too much of a shock to you?
If they don't stay here, how can they blow it up?
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Then why will this Government not do something about it?
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deeuu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Jihad TV |
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| Tommi_J wrote: |
| they truly beleive that 9/11 was all a fake done my American Intelligence |
The CIA make the hotdogs and slurpees... 
Sounds like they must be really stupid people. Everyone knows, "At the 7-Eleven, freedom's waiting for you" as they say "If it's not around the house, it's just around the corner at 7-eleven..."
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dan_kett
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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not all muslims are radicals and suicide bombers! just like not all irishmen are IRA sympathisers.
but yes, the ones that are, should be told to fukc off.
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Tommi_J
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dan_kett wrote: |
not all muslims are radicals and suicide bombers! just like not all irishmen are IRA sympathisers.
but yes, the ones that are, should be told to fukc off. |
Exactly, I know a Muslim man, great guy, and I get on well with him, but the radicals?! If they're so radical, then perhaps go and portray your radicalness in a Muslim country.
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deeuu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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It ain't just Muslims... 
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Andy Mac's Fake Tan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| deeuu wrote: |
It ain't just Muslims... |
I agree with you for once. Notice the look of pure hate on the bloke behind Bush. Pure terror in those eyes. 
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Tommi_J
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Mac's Fake Tan wrote: |
| deeuu wrote: |
It ain't just Muslims... |
I agree with you for once. Notice the look of pure hate on the black bloke behind Bush. Pure terror in those eyes.
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But Bush is doing that in his own Christian country. If he were to go to a Muslim country and promotoe Christian extremism, then maybe he'd be wrong.
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Frank
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe if the US and Britain stopped their campaign of terror in the Middle East and Central Asia (which has been going on one way or another since long before the attack on New York), the extremists wouldn't find it quite so easy to recruit potential terrorists.
Alongside "exposing" Islamist TV stations perhaps British journalists could also look to their own conduct, particularly with regard to the lies many of them are using to stoke the fires by whipping up anti-Muslim hatred. When the media in Britain are full of lies about them, it's scarcely surprising that some British Muslims will look elsewhere for coverage of world affairs.
I'm thinking of (for example) the Sun's recent coverage of a hate campaign against some soldiers in Windsor which the Sun tried to blame on Muslims, leading to a local MP saying they (the Muslims) should "f*ck off" (his words).
Turns out the campaign was in fact waged by "local" householders who believed that having squaddies in the neighbourhood would force the value of their houses down. That's according to the local police who investigated the case.
Has the Sun admitted its story was a pack of racist lies?
Of course not, and as a result thousands, maybe millions, of its readers believe that Muslims in Windsor tried to terrorise these lads into leaving their home, when in fact it was middle-class white people, who call themselves Christians. |
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AllModCons
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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I've been an interested viewer of the recent Channel 4 programmes on Muslims/Islam and sadly I don't think they fufilled the potential of the "debate" that kicked off the whole issue. A mere hour of debate to answer the issue of whether the Islamic faith is at odds with the notion of freedom of speech in this country was enough and merely gave a tabloid style account of events. Many of the points led onto further debate, which went untouched.
Many of those presenting points did well however the game from one Islamic organisation was virtually allowed to read a pre-prepared mantra, rather than by questioned and cross examined. He was rather aggressive in his style and one answer "wouldn't you be angry if I insulted your Mum" was practically from the playground.
A lot of these programmes don't get to the real issues - the Muslim Council of GB have many Representatives that talk sense in Interviews or on Newnight or the News At Ten but is this Representative actually conveying the feelings of those he stands for? That organisation repeatedly refuses to police itself or condemn the actions of minorities of the Muslims.
I'm still incredulous at the logic of a march on the Danish Embassy in London after the infamous Mohammed Cartoons, a march that caused huge inconvenience to many Londoners, a march where the relatives of those killed in the London Terror acts watched protesters dressed as Suicide bombers etc... All the upset, expense and inconvenience to make life difficult for a few Scandinavian Civil Servants who had already fled. People who just happened to be from the same Country as the Publisher.
I'm all for having the courage of your convictions but the re-action to me, was ludricous. I can understand their anger and hate and the majority of people marched with decorum but what effect, what difference does a march in another, totally blameless country make? If they have a right to protest, surely we have a right to the freedom of speech and the satire of Western Journalism? If our culture is at odds with theirs then surely there will be inevitable problems? Surely Muslims were aware of this at the start? The sympathy I have for the way Muslims and indeed anyone of Asian descent is (at times) scapegoated and labelled irrespective of their faith is eroded by things like this. It seems a simple and basic premise.
Jack Straw's words are twisted and made into something they weren't and it's deeemed "oppressive" - the uncertainty and ignornace at Islam is perpetuated by things like the Hijab and the lack of open and frank debate on the matter. Maybe if more open and frank discussions took place then we call understand each other a little better. Communities are isolated and this breeds suspicion. This is needed on both sides but would be aided by many Muslims not making mountains (which Mohammed may or may not go to) out of molehills and playing the victim card ad nauseum. There is blame on BOTH sides.
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Jeremy Jacob
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Remember that the word `Muslim' covers a range at least as wide as `Christian'. Imagine a 1-hour debate that attempted to cover all views from Quaker to Southern Baptist via Serbian Orthodox and C of E.
Media over-simplification: just say no.
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AllModCons
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Jacob wrote: |
Remember that the word `Muslim' covers a range at least as wide as `Christian'. Imagine a 1-hour debate that attempted to cover all views from Quaker to Southern Baptist via Serbian Orthodox and C of E.
Media over-simplification: just say no. |
Agreed, which is why Channel Four has failed in some respects. It's good it has saw fit to open the debate but bad that's been over simplified to make it "bite sized" TV.
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The Moleman
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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I did not get to see the programme, but I would have been very interested to do so. These channels are promoting hate against the West, which is very wrong. A bit like the Sun, Daily Express etc are stirring up hate against the Muslims.
On the subject of the hijab, it has been very interesting to read and listen to what has happened. The stories of this woman who wears the hijab due to her religious beliefs, and the woman who wore a crucifix at BA check in. The reporting was very different in relation to the two stories. Both are wearing things that are to do with their religious convictions, yet the media supported the headmaster who suspended the Muslim women and supported the Christian woman over BA. Now, everyone will start shouting we are a Christian country! No, we are a secular, open and free country where we should be allowed to wear what we want. Others have been saying how the woman scares the kids with her hijab. Well, how do you conquer other people's fears? By educating and introducing other cultures. These children would have learnt that there is a woman behind the veil and she is a warm person and a good teacher. It will have taught them about other cultures and how there are real people under the veils. Rather, when they ask what's happened they will be told their teacher is suspended because she was wearing a hijab. The kids will have learnt a valuable lesson, that wearing the hijab is wrong!
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yorkshireandproud
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Tommi_J wrote: |
| dan_kett wrote: |
not all muslims are radicals and suicide bombers! just like not all irishmen are IRA sympathisers.
but yes, the ones that are, should be told to fukc off. |
Exactly, I know a Muslim man, great guy, and I get on well with him, but the radicals?! If they're so radical, then perhaps go and portray your radicalness in a Muslim country.
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I don't think I count Tommi.
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The Moleman
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone see this? Christ this is becoming a witchunt.
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An experienced Muslim firearms officer has begun race and religious discrimination proceedings against the Metropolitan Police after he was removed from a close-protection unit guarding senior dignitaries, including Tony Blair. Amjad Farooq, 39, a father of five, was told he was a threat to national security because his children had attended a mosque associated with a Muslim cleric linked to a suspected terrorist group.
The officer was also told that his presence might upset the American secret service which worked closely with the Met's close-protection group.
His case raises further concerns about the treatment of Muslim firearms officers working in Metropolitan Police Force. Last month, at the height of the conflict in southern Lebanon, PC Alexander Basha was excused from guarding the Israeli embassy in Kensington Palace Gardens, central London, because of concern about his family links with Lebanon.
PC Farooq was a firearms specialist working for the Wiltshire Constabulary when he was transferred to the Diplomatic Protection Group SO16 (DPG) whose main role is to provide static protection at government, diplomatic and Metropolitan Police sites. All officers within the DPG are required to undergo security vetting including a counter-terrorism check (CTC).
PC Farooq was told he would not be transferred until he had received full counter-terrorism clearance. On 16 December 2003, he was approached by a detective chief superintendent from Special Branch who informed him that he had failed his CTC. By then, PC Farooq had been working for the DPG for six weeks.
The Met told the officer that they had evidence to justify the refusal of the CTC and referred to the fact that PC Farooq's children, two sons aged 9 and 11, had attended their local mosque for religious studies when the building was associated with an iman whom the police suspected of links to an extremist Islamic group. Mr Farooq strongly denies any such links or inappropriate behaviour.
At a tribunal to be held next year, Mr Farooq is expected to say that his colleagues had said words to the effect of "what will the American secret service make of him when he turns up there?" [referring to the likelihood that PC Farooq would be posted to duty at the US embassy in Grosvenor Square, London].
It is understood that the officer is the first person to have his CTC vetting status withdrawn.
PC Farooq later challenged the decision to remove his CTC by lodging an appeal with the Security Vetting Appeal Panel (SVAP), which is administered by the Cabinet Office, itself headed by the Prime Minister.
It has subsequently emerged in relation to the appeal that the Met refused to disclose any evidence for these allegations on the grounds of national security concerns.
PC Farooq's case will challenge the secrecy surrounding vetting appeals so that he can be allowed to be represented by a Special Advocate who would test the national security evidence used by the Met to reach its decision to withdraw his special clearance.
As a result of the clearance refusal, PC Farooq was transferred from the DPG to Hammersmith & Fulham constabulary. When he returned to collect his belongings, on 31 December 2003, he was asked to return to meet a police sergeant. He claims that he was taken to a basement room where he was searched in front of other officers.
PC Farooq's solicitor, Lawrence Davies, of the law firm Equal Justice, said last night he was unable to comment in detail about the case, but did say: " We live in a society where it is possible to point a finger at a Muslim abroad and say that they have WMD and are a threat to national security and no questions are asked. Now those who 'protect' us feel emboldened to point the same finger at British Muslims. Muslims are labelled guilty by association. Doubt is insufficient to save them. They are assumed guilty before being proven innocent. We are very close to living in the days of Salem. If the head of counter-terrorism becomes a Witch-Finder General then any Muslim or Muslim-looking person or sympathiser best take cover."
PC Farooq declined to comment about the case.
Inayat Bunglawala, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said details of Mr Farooq's case would "not come as a great surprise to many British Muslims. Smear and innuendo appear increasingly to have taken the place of hard evidence when it comes to finding Muslims guilty of misdemeanours. There is no suggestion that Amjad Farooq himself represented any kind of security risk or that the cleric in the mosque had been convicted of any actual crime."
Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, leader of the "British Muslim Parliament" , said: "Unless the individual has close links with a terrorist organisation there is no reason to take these kind of decisions. I think it is a dangerous precedent to set and we have to be very careful about going beyond what is direct evidence, particularly when the allegation concerns the children of the person involved."
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deeuu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Becoming? It HAS been for years...
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TooOldToPogo
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Extreme Fundamentalists Have a look at this clip of parents and preachers asking kids to "lay down their lives" for their God, be afraid. The World has greater enemies than Bin Laden, Saddam and handfull of radical Muslims, and one of them belongs to this lot. |
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Tonys Twostripes
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| TooOldToPogo wrote: |
| Extreme Fundamentalists Have a look at this clip of parents and preachers asking kids to "lay down their lives" for their God, be afraid. The World has greater enemies than Bin Laden, Saddam and handfull of radical Muslims, and one of them belongs to this lot. |
Aye. Not to worry though. Dee's hero General Ramsey Clark will come along and defend them just like he did with the freak at Wako.
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John_D
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Tommi_J wrote: |
| But Bush is doing that in his own Christian country. If he were to go to a Muslim country and promotoe Christian extremism, then maybe he'd be wrong. |
 Oh that's funny
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AllModCons
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
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PC Alexander Bashar was taken off those duties due to fears for his family if he was seen to be guarding the Israeli Embassy. If there had been an attack on his family then the MET would have been criticised so they were in a lose, lose situation. They didn't suspend him or deem him unfit for work, he was in hiding for his own safety. Seems like common sense to me.
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The Moleman
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| AllModCons wrote: |
| PC Alexander Bashar was taken off those duties due to fears for his family if he was seen to be guarding the Israeli Embassy. If there had been an attack on his family then the MET would have been criticised so they were in a lose, lose situation. They didn't suspend him or deem him unfit for work, he was in hiding for his own safety. Seems like common sense to me. |
From two separate stories I have read about this story it seems it was to do with concerns over his threat to security and how the Americans would feel, not the other way around. You may be right, but I've seen nothing to suggest what you say was the motive for the decision.
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AllModCons
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| The Moleman wrote: |
| AllModCons wrote: |
| PC Alexander Bashar was taken off those duties due to fears for his family if he was seen to be guarding the Israeli Embassy. If there had been an attack on his family then the MET would have been criticised so they were in a lose, lose situation. They didn't suspend him or deem him unfit for work, he was in hiding for his own safety. Seems like common sense to me. |
From two separate stories I have read about this story it seems it was to do with concerns over his threat to security and how the Americans would feel, not the other way around. You may be right, but I've seen nothing to suggest what you say was the motive for the decision.
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I think I read it in the Observer (no Sunday Telegraphs left!) the other week but haven't read any other accounts...
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The Moleman
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| AllModCons wrote: |
| The Moleman wrote: |
| AllModCons wrote: |
| PC Alexander Bashar was taken off those duties due to fears for his family if he was seen to be guarding the Israeli Embassy. If there had been an attack on his family then the MET would have been criticised so they were in a lose, lose situation. They didn't suspend him or deem him unfit for work, he was in hiding for his own safety. Seems like common sense to me. |
From two separate stories I have read about this story it seems it was to do with concerns over his threat to security and how the Americans would feel, not the other way around. You may be right, but I've seen nothing to suggest what you say was the motive for the decision.
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I think I read it in the Observer (no Sunday Telegraphs left!) the other week but haven't read any other accounts...
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The Independent today said
| Quote: |
| PC Amjad Farooq, 39, a father of five children, is suing the Metropolitan Police for race and religious discrimination after he was withdrawn from the prestigious Diplomatic Protection Group (SO16) after failing a counter-terrorism check (CTC). |
It was not due to their safety fears for him, rather he posed a threat.
Rest of the story: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1962448.ece
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DMN
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: |
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So in other words, he failed to meet the criteria, so he's sueing them?
Lets hope he wins, theres so many companies that have turned me down for jobs that have it coming for them now!
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The Moleman
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Just noticed this bit
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| PC Farooq's lawyer, Lawrence Davies, said he was unable to comment on the case. But he said he could talk about points of general principle that it raised. He said: "The police know that this happens all the time. A police officer will say that they do not wish to work somewhere or make a certain arrest because of personal reasons or conflicts of interest. This is not a bad thing. In the Stephen Lawrence case it would have been useful for the investigating police officers who knew the family of the alleged perpetrators to have requested not to act in that matter. The culture of fear we have in this country now, means that if a Muslim officer makes the same request, the press say that the police have lost control and senior police officers speak of mutiny in the ranks." |
Turns out he asked not to put on certain duties within the force, I think it was the Israel one as you said AMC (I apologise for being wrong on that), as all police officers are allowed to do. However, he was taken off duty totally due to his 'links' with this iman.
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The Moleman
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| DMN wrote: |
So in other words, he failed to meet the criteria, so he's sueing them?
Lets hope he wins, theres so many companies that have turned me down for jobs that have it coming for them now! |
He had been working for them for 6 weeks after passing an initial CTC test and then they checked him out again. They found his kids had gone to a mosque to learn the holy book where a 'radical cleric' had been preaching, but not involved with the kids. The iman was then chucked out of the mosque after a squabble with the board. This iman though has never been found guilty of a crime, the records merely showed an investigation by the police. He was also told that he could offend and/or worry the Americans with his presence. So the only reason he was taken off the group was because his sons had briefly been in the same mosque as a 'radical' who was thrown out, and he could offend people. Sounds fair to me!
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